On being radical in the Jewish world

[leftyjew]

So this comes up largely in response to a discussion with kellev about having to hide your politics in the Jewish world. He does it. I don't do it to the same degree, but I don't feel particularly comfortable being a radical observant Jew. Most people that I know are left-of-center liberals. There's a huge difference there. This creates serious problems and I do think I offend people by calling the DLC conservative or Leiberman a Republican. (I assume I offend them because of their reaction). It's not often when I can find people in the religious and/or observant communities who really agree with me politically, and my politics are pretty central to my identity.
How does my religious identity contradict with my political identity? I'm not exactly sure that it does. My religious messianism is slightly different than my ideal political world, although I really don't think Jewish concepts of messiah are significantly different from a panarchist world government with everyone doing their own thing but respecting the certain key values (similar to how I understand Aleinu in a pluralistic way - I don't think everyone will call G-d by the same name, but I think they will all call G-d by one of His Names be it Allah or Y-ah or something no one's heard of, but it will be the same G-d... it may even be very different faces of the same G-d).
So my concept of pluralism extends to my politics. I'm much happier being a pluralist when it comes to accepting other communities. Within my own community, I prefer some degree of conformity.
In conclusion, it seems I'm pretty consistent. I just can't find many people who share my world view. It's refreshing when it happens but it occurs very infrequently. Anyway, this ramble is complete

Comments

[queerrocket.livejournal.com]

Chacho, I miss you!

What happens to us non-theists? I'm worried that your vision encroaches too close to the Left Behind series. I hope that isn't offensive, and I only mean it in a certain way. Yours isn't nearly as batshit crazy.

[alanscottevil.livejournal.com]

nice icon. we should all hang out when i get back to The National Capital of Hippity-Hoppity Fun.

i have nothing to add to the stuff on the religion or politics. it makes sense to me.

[leftyjew.livejournal.com]

I think there's only so much cognitive dissonance that I can take. Although I'm inspired by the actions and beliefs of non-theists in general and certain ones in specific, I do believe in G-d. People connect to that being/concept in all sorts of different ways, but I don't see non-theism as an accurate assessment of the world. The only way that I can picture a messianic age is with the acceptance of that in the population at large. I'm open to other ideas if you want to bat some around at some point.
And welcome back from Mountain Daylight Time! We should hang at some point soon.

[rivka-m.livejournal.com]

I don't see any contradiction in your beliefs, just doesn't follow the usual trends of the community. And since when have social norms been connected to logic? (think of the whole phenomenon of people being "too frum for halacha")

[leftyjew.livejournal.com]

I was trying to draw a contradiction and I think I failed....

[rivka-m.livejournal.com]

I think so too

[rivka-m.livejournal.com]

is that reassuring or disappointing that you failed?

Re: pissing people off

[leftyjew.livejournal.com]

I think the Jewish concepts of the messianic age that I do buy into (A monarchy, rebuilding the Temple) conflict with my democratic beliefs. (However, I have ALWAYS been a fan of the Philosopher King - even before I knew the concept existed - because I think that intelligent good guys are better than democracy. I just don't think it's sustainable or incorruptible. I suppose King Moshiach will not be corruptible somehow? Maybe G-d will be more active in stopping that just for kiddush l'atzmo.) Anyway, I think it's disappointing that I've failed, because it reaffirms my belief that I'm right which isn't the result I wanted. I'd rather struggle internally than externally.

Re: pissing people off

[leftyjew.livejournal.com]

because it reaffirms my belief that I'm right
I don't mean to say that everyone else is wrong, there are many "rights". I just think that consistency is a good sign of finding something that is correct. Anyway, that's been bugging me all weekend, so I had to clarify.

[kellev.livejournal.com]

1. "My religious messianism is slightly different than my ideal political world"
   • How so?
2. I don't think that the word "radical" by itself suggests either right or left so when you describe yourself you may want to be more specific if you want people to understand what you're saying.
   • You're very nice for a radical ;)
3. "This creates serious problems"
   • Like?
     • You mean just because your opinions piss people off?
     • Or is there something else that I'm missing?
4. "Within my own community, I prefer some degree of conformity."
   • In what sense?
     • Religiously?
     • Politically?
   • Does this somehow affect your sense of yourself, in terms of your politically views? Does it relate to your political views in another way?

[leftyjew.livejournal.com]

1. I'm not sure. Otherwise I probably would have gone into it in more detail. Most of this was stream-of-conscious.

2. I'm just saying I'm awesome ;)

3. Okay, perhaps not HUGE. But pissing people off is a problem.

4. Ideally, some degree of conformity of politics and observance. Religion is not so important. I don't understand your second question

[kellev.livejournal.com]

1. ok.
2. How about "Bodacious" ?
3. Yeah, that's kind of why I try not to get into politics so much.
4. Regarding my 2^nd question, I'm asking if your preference for conformity within your community makes you want to conform politically, as you're a self-defined minority, in terms of political outlook, within your community.

[leftyjew.livejournal.com]

Oh, no, it works the other way around. I accept that others have differing opinions (with varying degrees of acceptance) and i'd rather change who I'm with than change what I believe. That's why I'm a fan of completely permeable borders - so people can find others who naturally conform to their ideas.

re: pissing people off

[rivka-m.livejournal.com]

it sure can be a problem, but sometimes it's good for people to have to deal with ideas they don't want to deal with. Not that that makes it more fun to have one's community allergic to one's opinions.